new Fusion 2-the Kurzweil PC4

[Jokeyman123]

Scouring through many workstation keyboards as A/B against our beast. Here is one-the newest Kurzweil comes pretty close.

https://kurzweil.com/pc4/

Has FM, VAST etc. Sequencer, alot of RAM etc. You know what i think-its still not as full-featured as the Fusion. No sampling-no direct samples access from the hard drive. No PM-and the kicker for me after reading several reviews-the key action sounds questionable-it is a Medeli-and several pro reviews feel it is more spring-like than piano action, not for me. Only 29 pounds-like the newest Roland DS-88 and flagship Casio PX-560 which I also play regularly-but when I really want to dig into some serious classical/jazz chops-I keep going back to the 8HD. So-false alarm, the Kurzweil is still no Fusion-the slide pots are handy, the Hammond tonewheel simulation of the Kurzweil is probably excellent-but then sorting through all the Hammond tonewheel organs in the Fusion-are pretty killer in their own right and the Leslie simulation is pretty nice too. Jesse, Chris or anyone else here-I am creating another post requesting a way to simulate keyclick or percussion with either the 4 T buttons, the 2 S buttons or even the knobs. All these controls, I'm sure it can be done.

[Jokeyman123]

And another design detail-the PC4 uses a blue backlit scheme for its control wheels-gee where have i seen that before? sigh....

[Saul]

It's interesting to see where Alesis were with the Fusion all the way back in 2005 and what some manufacturers are doing over 15 years later in 2021

Kurzweil reminds me very much of another great American manufacturer, all be it in a completely different niche, Garrett Metal Detectors.

Both these companies, once major names in their respective industries seem to have sat back and rested on their laurels whilst their competitors forged ahead.

There comes a point where the brand name is no longer enough.

I get the impression that Kurzweil is trying a scatter-gun approach to trying to stay relevant but it is not really working. The competition now is way too strong.

This brings me back to the Fusion. It was ahead of its time in 2005 and that has stood it in good stead because even though it has been out of production for well over a decade it is still a keyboard that is very much relevant in 2021.

[Jokeyman123]

Yes, Saul I agree. Many musicians don't realize what a "niche" market music instruments are-as a retired music educator who had to keep on top of the music suppliers for stocking my own music dept.-I realized how small this market is relative to say washing machines, TV's motorcycles etc. must be a treacherous balancing act to stay relevant, make money and support your base.

The pandemic hasn't helped as touring pros and even low-level guys like me, are not using their instruments regularly since most performance venues are partially or totally shut even now after a solid year thus except for pure hobby musicians-again not much wear and tear if all your equipment stays in-house continually, not as much of a need for turnover of equipment in the marketplace.

My brother has managed to work the Jersey shore again in some venues, but mostly as trios-only one of his bands carries a keyboard player, typical there with many of the local acts unless you are a solo or duo. Kind of discouraging, and unless manufacturers strike a balance with this newer marketplace, can disappear very quickly, as much of my Ensoniq and Generalmusic equipment so clearly shows.

I also am seeing an unfortunate trend towards cheaper construction-another reason I've kept my older, much more well-constructed instruments. I don't mind carrying around a Casio PX-560 for a gig, but honestly-newer instruments like these can't compete with something like the Fusion-and I bought a used Fusion for less than a new PX560-half the price actually.

Not criticizing Casio-they are manufacturing what I guess the market is buying, but I see shortcuts and cheapness in manufacturing-fine if you are only going to use these for light-duty musical endeavours but if I were running a big venue or show, I'd still prefer something very solidly built-and with "fortified' electronics, rather than dumbed-down Chinese manufactured keyboard, which even the Kurzeils are beginning to look like.

I managed years of providing full arrangements for my school shows/productions with the SY77 which I've kept and it held up well even with cruddy AC sources and still does.

I pushed the control knobs of the PX560 down too hard-and broke the circuit board inside, had to repair it myself. I can't even buy a Milwaukee, Dewalt or other big name tools now without first checking to see if these are Chinese versions or still made here. I know from experience-these look the same, but the motors inside are different.

[Fleer]

Happy owner of both Alesis Fusion and Kurzweil PC4 here. The latter is a pretty amazing workstation and controller in one, with a great action I highly prefer to any Fatar keybed.

[Jokeyman123]

Fleer-
What is the PC4 keyboard action? Are there any internal pictures anywhere? Kurzweil tends to use Fatar actions, not sure what this one is. And again directed to Fleer, assuming you have the 8HD. can you describe the actions between the 2-pretty much the same, heavier, lighter-key throw depth, speed of return, keynoise etc.. I rely on a good piano action quite a bit and the Fusion is pretty nice for me, i've played many-Roland RD's Yamaha's, older Kurzweils, only a weighted Korg Triton. Thanks.

[Fleer]

Fleer-
What is the PC4 keyboard action? Are there any internal pictures anywhere? Kurzweil tends to use Fatar actions, not sure what this one is. And again directed to Fleer, assuming you have the 8HD. can you describe the actions between the 2-pretty much the same, heavier, lighter-key throw depth, speed of return, keynoise etc.. I rely on a good piano action quite a bit and the Fusion is pretty nice for me, i've played many-Roland RD's Yamaha's, older Kurzweils, only a weighted Korg Triton. Thanks.

It’s a Medeli K6S hammer action (graded and with aftertouch). Have seen internal pictures at the PianoWorld forum. Some people prefer the heavier Fatar TP40/L action Kurzweil puts in their Forte (and upcoming K2700) but I prefer the Medeli’s light weight. And sorry, can’t compare to the Fusion 8, as I’ve got the 6.

[Jokeyman123]

Found this...look at around 2:15 in the video as someone breaks down the Medeli SP4200 with hammer action....I hope this isn't what is inside the 2000 dollar Kurzweil. Look at the way the keys are joined together in the back. Not for me at least not the Medeli version. If I'm about to drop close to 2 big ones on the PC4, and I am considering it, not if the keys are constructed like this. Please show me a better picture inside the the PC4. This is how the cheaper non-weighted Casios and Yamaha keys are put together. I know, I've had to repair a few. Might be cutting down the weight, but at what price? I am not dissing the PC4 Fleer, I just want to be sure what I'm getting into with the key design, if it will hold up. I've looked t several other user groups re the Kurzweil specifically snd am a member at Pianoworld, but aside from one pic there, and this video which is not the PC4, I can't find anything specific re the PC4-which aparently has the same design for the keys as the Kurzweil SP-6.

[2ManyKeys]

I have spent a lot of time reading Kurz manuals in recent years trying to find a reason to own one. I keep striking out on that. Oh don't misunderstand. I know there are some amazing sounds on Kurzweil machines and the VAST architecture is extremely capable, but I don't buy for presets. I want an amazing synth engine that I can enjoy programming. The Fusion still has one of the most convenient and well designed programming interfaces in my opinion. Kurzweil to my amazement still has a programming interface for VAST that has all the charm of programming an SY77. Great machines with cumbersome numeric programming interfaces that take all the fun out of making a sound. I don't think the awesome VAST architecture even has graphic representations of envelopes, LFO's, Filters etc. last I checked. The Fusion was WAY ahead of it's time with all the rapid access jump shortcuts and intuitive editing features. The FM editor alone is brilliant IMO.